to consume, but we don't have enough import to fund our consumption or enough saving to support our deficit. what are we going to do if china changes and we don't. >> but i gather that you think they're on the ascendency and we are clearly on the decline. that is the -- i will say, that was my takeaway. >> they are rebalancing their model to keep the growth and development story going and that will certainly take them to a larger scale of their economy than ours, at some point in the next five to ten years. >> gdp. >> their per capta gdp, joe, is going to be increasing, but at a much slower pace. for a long time. >> multiplied out and that's why it's bigger. >> for a long time. are we on the decline? that's the big debate in america. we continue to undersave, underinvest in people, infrastructure, and capacity. and if we don't get that together, then their ascendency will coincide with our decline. >> we've had periods like this before. >> yeah. >> i mean, you're optimistic we get it together or do you think we're the roman empire? >> no, look, i hope we get it together. what i don't see is